shimano tld 20/25 rebuild

[alantani]

photos for this tld 20/25 post were shot with my new camera. no more blurry pictures. after this post, only the tld 5/10 lever drags are left to shoot and then the entire shimano graphite lever drag series of reels will be complete. here is a link to the schematics for the single speed tld 20 and 25 reels.....

http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Conventional/TLD_20_ARB_v1_m56577569830570244.pdf

http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Conventional/TLD_25_ARB_v1_m56577569830570245.pdf

and here are the reels. except for the width of the spool, frame and spool shaft, the reels are identical. these reels were shipped in from hawaii. the freespool was very poor, but these reels were still in good enough shape to kill fish.

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0984.JPG

by now, you all know the drill. pull the preprogram dial (key #9), the dial spring (key #82), the lever shaft body and "O" seal (key# 10 and 11), and the drag control lever (key #83).

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0986.JPG

remove the lever quadrant (key #192) and screws (key #19, 21 and 86).

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0987.JPG

remove the seven side plate bolts (key #24).

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0988.JPG

separate out the frame, spool and right side plate assemblies.

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0989.JPG

let's start with the frame first. grease up the click spring (key #101) and click pawl (key #231).

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0991.JPG

these old wing nut clamps are great for gouging up the gelcoat of a boat. let's get rid of them.

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0992.JPG

the graphite clamps are much better. ok, that's it for the frame.

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0993.JPG

now for the spool. once again, the cooling shield (key #89) was loose. note the rubber gasket that seals up the drag chamber when the reel is in gear. remember to keep this and all of the shimano graphite lever drag reels in gear when they will be exposed to water.

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0994.JPG

remove the drag plate assembly (key #196, 60, 91 and 31) and set it aside with the cooling shield.

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0995.JPG

now for the left side of the spool. remove cross pin B (key #50).

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0996.JPG

remove the click gear (key #98) and screws (key #99).

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0997.JPG

pull the main shaft (key #173), keeping the bellevilles, thrust washers and bearings in order.

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0998.JPG

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_0999.JPG

these bearing are gummed up, but not rusted. with a small pen knife, pry out the shields and let's clean them out with carb cleaner and compressed air, then lube them with corrosion x. by cleaning the bearings rather than replacing them, we'll save someone $40-50!

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1000.JPG

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1001.JPG

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1004.JPG

now we're going to change the configuration of the bellevilles (pre-load springs). the original orientation of the pre-load washer A (key #72) and the pre-load spring B's (key #96) is "|()()" and the thickness is 4.61 mm.

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1002.JPG

we're going to toss the flat washer and add a fifth pre-load spring B. the new configuration will be "(()))" and the thickness is 4.52 mm.

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1003.JPG

back into the spool it goes.

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1006.JPG

grease the screw holes.

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1007.JPG

install the click gear (key #98), screws (key #99) and cross pin B (key #50).

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1008.JPG

now for the right side of the spool. the replacement drag washer is the drag washer used in the two speed shimano tld 20/30 II, part #TT-0246. the tabs were cut off with wire cutters. then i found an impact socked that fit the center hole just perfectly. i carefully held the drag washer against a grinder so that it would spin, and ground the drag washer down to the exact same size as the stock washer. don't worry about not having the same tabs as the stock washer. the tabs are not needed.

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1009.JPG

apply a thin coat of shimano drag grease to the spool.

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1010.JPG

apply a thin coat of grease to both sides of the drag washer and press it into place.

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1011.JPG

rub off all the excess grease.

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1012.JPG

install the bearings (key #216) and pressure release spring (key #202).

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1013.JPG

you will notice a small amount of play in the drag plate assembly. that play needs to be eliminated. pop out the seal lock (key #31).

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1014.JPG

from left to right, you see the seal lock (key #31), the drag plate (key #91), pre-load spring A (key #60) and the pinion guard (key #196). what i am holding is a stainless steel washer that my machine shop buddy punched out for me. this replaces the 4 layers of masking tape that you saw in the tld 20/30 two speed upgrade post.

[alantani]

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1016.JPG

if there is ALOT of play in the drag plate assembly, install pre-load spring A in the "down" position to take up more play. normally you can install pre-load spring "up" position.

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1017.JPG

install the drag plate assembly and cooling shield (key #89).

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1018.JPG

use the wrench (key #230) to tighten down the spooling shield.

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1019.JPG

install the spool assembly back into the frame. install the pinion gear (key #168).

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1020.JPG

ok, we're done with the frame and spool. now we're on to the right side plate. first, we need to get to the right main side plate bearing (key #215). a "coffee grinder" sensation when you turn the handle says this bearing is shot. it is always the first one to go out.

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1021.JPG

remove the handle screw (key #75), the handle nut (key #76), the handle (key #208), gear shaft shield (key #78), gear shaft thrust washer (key #79) and the main gear (key #166). the dog (key #26) will fall out.

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1022.JPG

the original bearing was totally rusted, so the shields were removed from a new bearing, and the bearing was packed with grease.

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1023.JPG

replace dog (key #26) and the main gear (key #166).

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1024.JPG

these reels definitely need a handle upgrade. tiburon makes a nice one. http://www.tiburonengineering.com/html/t-bar_handles.html reel colors makes one as well, http://www.reelcolors.com/reelcolors_004.htm this is the one that is made for me.

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1025.JPG

install the gear shaft thrust washer (key #79), the gear shaft shield (key #78), the new handle, the handle nut (key #76) and the handle nut screw (key #75).

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1026.JPG

install the right side plate assembly and screws (key #24).

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1027.JPG

install the lever quadrant (key #192) and screws (key #21, 19 and 86).

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1028.JPG

just a side note for a common problem. one of the screw holes for the lever quadrant was stripped out. a small copper strip was cut to fit the hole. after running the screw back in, the copper strip held the screw just fine.

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1034.JPG

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1035.JPG


install the drag control lever (key #83) and push it down into the "free" position.

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1029.JPG

align the lever shaft body (key #11) so that it "nests" with the drag control lever and drop it in. add a small amount of grease, then the dial spring (key #82) and the pre-program dial (key #9).

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1030.JPG

check the freespool.

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1031.JPG

check the maximum drag at strike before losing free spool. you should be able to get at least 20 pound. this particular reel was able to get 26 pound of drag at strike before freespool was lost. when backed off to 12 pound of drag at strike, the freespool time was 60 seconds.

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1032.JPG

you can clearly see the difference in size between the stock handle and the larger aftermarket handle.

http://www.yourfishpictures.com/data/500/medium/104_1033.JPG

just a side note. the tld 20 has nearly the same line capacity as the penn senator 113HL. the tld 25 is nearly the same as the penn senator 113HLW. for the tld 20 and 25, this means lots of line capacity, and now plenty of drag. the problem is the graphite frame. i am not aware of a single case of frame failure with these single speed tld's. i am certain that the tld 20/25 frame can easily handle 15 pounds of drag at strike with no risk of frame failure. it may be able to handle up to 18 pounds of drag at strike. please do not exceed 18 pounds.

so what this boils down to is straight 40-50 pound mono on a tld 20 with a 30% drag setting, and straight 50-60 pound mono on a tld 25 and the same 30% drag setting. you see that 18 pound of drag at strike is the heaviest setting that i would ever recommend. i believe the 18 pound strike setting for either reel is safe because i am aware of no cases of frame failure. if anyone out there knows differently, please let me know. i have no problem adjusting these numbers down. thanks! alan

[JOCOOL]

Alan, I have a query regarding the washer that you install behind the drag washer. Seeing as the pinion gaurd is only plastic, and you have added the extra thickness of the washer, you need to exert more pressure to get the seal clip re-fitted. Would that be causing un-due stress on the pinion gaurd?

And secondly. The new drag washer that you install has a bigger centre bore hole. This would effectively reduce the usable surface area of the drag. You don't think that would detract from it in any way?

[wombat]

Alan,
You're the man. Great report as usual. Too complicated for me. Shall I bring all my reels over for a service while I'm over there??? Did you receive my PM re Sunday 10th? Are you working or occupied?

Wombat :)

[alantani]

joe, you're right about the total decreased drag surface area. and it's probably a good thing. i don't think the reel could handle any more than 26 pounds of drag! the pinion gear should be ok. it seems to me made of sturdy stuff. when you open it up and look, you'll see that it's very tough.

wayne, sorry about not getting back to you. i'm working a late shift at the hospital both saturday and sunday. they're 12 hour shifts and the late shift is the least favored of all. i'm also starting a week long mini vacation on monday, leading up to a fishing tournament the next weekend. it's doubtful that the girls at the office would let me slide on not one shift, but two. pm your itinerary.